was made that ...I think 5254 is the only obsolete product I'd
like to see Kodak bring back!!!
Me too. Best flesh-to-neutral balance ever. As long as I don't have
to process it (in the old, cold, ECN1 process).
>I think 5254 is the only obsolete
product I'd like to see
Are there any prime examples of films using this stock for us 'young-uns'
that have been weened (sp?) on Vision and Super-F stocks to have
a look at??
Kim Henning Sargenius wrote:
>Are there any prime examples
of films using this stock for us 'young->uns' that have been
weened (sp?) on Vision and Super-F stocks to have >a look at???
Godfathers 1 and 2, McCabe and Mrs Miller (to name a couple of polar
opposites), and almost every American film between 1969 and 1974
(and many non-American films, too).
Almost any film made between 1968 and 1974 (when the first version
of 5247 came out, used more in Europe than the U.S.) or 1976 (when
the 600 series version of 5247 came out and Kodak obsolete 5254.)
Famous examples of movies shot on 5254 would be "The Godfather",
"Barry Lyndon", "Cabaret", "Bound for Glory",
etc. Kodak replaced it with the Series 600 5247 in August of 1976.
You have films of that period using both - for example, "Close
Encounters", which was shot on 5247 in 35mm anamorphic and
5254 in 65mm Super Panavision for efx photography.
Basically, it was smoother, creamier, had a wider latitude, and
push-processed better than 5247, which was sharper and finer-grained,
more contrasty. Vision 320T rated at 160 ASA and printed down, to
me, has a 5254 look.
Cinematographer / L.A.
It sounds like it's time for Kodak to reintroduce 5254.
>Since it was the only stock
available in its time, then you could look at >almost anything
shot between 1968 and 1974 (when the first ECN2 film >5247was
introduced) and a few films even up until 1977.
What was the original 60's StarTrek shot on?That started shooting
around 1966. The DVD's are just "knock your socks off"
gorgeous to look at. Around the same time, what where optical houses
using for blue screen work? I would love to see a 35mm print of
the 60's StarTrek on the big screen just once.
New Orleans, La
Hi Tom and CML,
WOW!! You & I 100% on the original 1960's Star Trek series.
The colors were incredible!
When the Sci-Fi Channel did a new telecine on that show 3 years
ago, I believed they went to a full blown HD transfer. I once met & spoke with Jerry Finnerman, ASC at some IA600 affair about
his work in shooting that show...he was very nice and said that
the producers & the network wanted "color, color &
more color" since it was really the introduction of color TV
sets for the masses and NBC [with it's Peacock] represented the
latest in color broadcasting.
I also remember Martin Hill trying to sell one of the Mitchell BNC's
from that show a year ago...5254 should be brought back!!
The original "Star Trek" was shot on 5251 (50 ASA tungsten).
Cinematographer / L.A.
Tom McDonnell wrote :
>What was the original 60's
StarTrek shot on? That started shooting >around 1966.
Never seen the show, but that would be 5251, which was EI 50. Not
a terrible stock, but slow.
>Are there any prime examples
Since it was the only stock available in its time, then you could
look at almost anything shot between 1968 and 1974 (when the first
ECN2 film 5247 was introduced) and a few films even up until 1977.
But bear in mind that what you look at may well be a faded print,
or from a dupe negative on the less-than-perfect 5253 or even from
a CRI on 5249, all of which would put a different characteristic
on the whole thing these days. Or a new transfer from any of the
above, with someone unidentified colourist's idea of what it should
Maybe you'll just have to rely on the discriminating reminiscences
of the old'uns. They don't make stock like that any more...
Check out 1973 Dick Lesters The Three Musketeers shot by David Watkin
processed by Technicolor London absolutely stunning.
John Holland DoP
If one wishes to examine the transition from Technicolor to Eastmancolor
and other color coupler type neg-pos color processes you have to
go back to the work of Rudolf Fischer in 1911 who discovered that
'certain dyes can be formed when silver bromide is developed with
p-phenylene together with coupling substances' (for more information
see COLOR CINEMATOGRAPHY by Adrian Cornwell-Clyne, 3rd edition,
1951, pages 355-388)
This was developed into a successful color process, at the behest
of Joseph Goebbels, by Dr William Schneider of Agfa just before
WWII. During the war 13 feature films were made using the process,
together with many documentaries and news items. The feature film
'Baron Munchausen' was considered to be the
During the occupation of Germany technical groups with the invading
forces kept up with the front line troops and investigated all the
centres of technology, including Wolfen where Agfa color film was
made and processed One of the investigators was Lt. Col R.H. Ranger
of the U.S. Signal Corps who wrote a detailed report. (Wolfen was
in the Russian zone and continued to manufacture the product as
After the war all the German patents were opened and made available
to the Allies.
The speeds of Agfa color were 8 Weston for the daylight type and
12 Weston for the Tungsten type. Both were on a Nitrate base. (The
book also notes that in 1940 the speed was increased fourfold) There
was also a positive version.
I do not carry any torch for Agfa, for after all, their then parent
company I.G. Farben also manufactured the gas used in Auschwitz,
but history is history and anyone pertaining to know about the history
of color negative film should have read Cornwell-Klein or a similarly
well informed contemporary book. To ignore the contribution of Agfa
is selective history.