Matching Moves

I have a shot to discuss next week, it won't be shot until mid-October, where we need to match a move in a studio with a background shot on location.

Now for 4 of these set-ups, the commercial consists of 5 of these shots, I have no problem, I'll use a portable motion control rig and just run the move on location to match the one in the studio, easy.

But for one of them I've got a problem, the director want to make a move that is bigger than the MoCo rig we're using can cope with and we don't have the budget for a bigger rig.

So, what are the chances of locking together 2 moves in post where there is vertical movement of the camera of around 15 feet. The shots will be done weeks apart probably, I'll use the same kit and the same crew and try and get the moves in the same time. I'll probably lock off the pan & tilt to remove some variables and record the angles to match the 2 takes.

Obviously there is going to be a lot of variation in the 2 moves, they'll both be about 15 feet and will both take about 5 seconds, we'll be as close as we can.

The question is, can we stabilise and track together these 2 shots?

I'll obviously be talking to the guys in the post house but I want to have an idea in advance whether to just say no

Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS
Director of Photography
EU Based
www.cinematography.net

>So, what are the chances of locking together 2 moves in post where >there is vertical movement of the camera of around 15 feet.

I'm wondering, without knowing the action or content of the shot, if it would be helpful to have a common horizontal element in the frame of both shots which can help marry the two shots. A linear horizontal that enters the top of the frame at the end of the first vertical shot and enters the top of the frame on the beginning of the second shot. like a horizontal wipe that can marry the images.

My idea is that if you are off in your left/right alignment the horizontal wipe can help to re-align the images.

Just a thought...

Jim Sofranko
NY/DP

Oh, an alternative is to not move the background camera at all, just shoot it much wider and scan that shot at 2K then move around the image as appropriate.

Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS
Director of Photography
EU Based
www.cinematography.net

Geoff Boyle wrote:

>Oh, an alternative is to not move the background camera at all, just >shoot it much wider and scan that shot at 2K then move around the >image as appropriate.

Hi Geoff,

Not sure I'm following correctly, but can you tile the BG image?

Shoot it as you would a panoramic tile BG, only vertically?

Shoot full frame super for wiggle room and I'd think you could pull it off nicely. For that matter could you use the moco rig and shoot wide multiple passes with varying degrees of tilt ( just like a panning tile BG).

What's the shot?

best regards,

Anders Uhl
NYC

OK the shot is a simple move down into a kitchen from the floor above.

The back wall of both floors is almost all glass.

The kitchen & floor above will be shot in a studio against green screen.

I need to put in the view from the window.

If the main shot is being done at TV res ie 720* 576 and I scan the background shot at 2048 * 1544 or whatever it is :-) then I should be able to do the master crane move in the studio from 15 feet up to about 3 feet up with a16mm lens and shoot the background with a 10mm.

I know that the perspective won't match perfectly but will it need to for a scene that is mainly countryside?

If we start by using the top of the 2K background plate and move down it with the crane move so that we end up using the bottom of it do I really need to tile the background?

My normal reaction to this is to tile like mad up and down but I'm not sure the production people are capable of understanding that even if the post guys are.

Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS
Director of Photography
EU Based
www.cinematography.net

>Oh, an alternative is to not move the background camera at all, just >shoot it much wider and scan that shot at 2K then move around the >image as appropriate.

That might be a better bet.

Depending upon the content of the shot, a perfect camera match may or may not be necessary, although desirable. If there is not a massive perspective shift in the background (sounds like there isn't), you could shoot the foreground either motion control or not, and shoot a multi-panel background element. You can then stitch the background panels together in post, and via spherical projection create an environment that can be shot with a "virtual" camera. The camera move can be generated either from the Mocon or via 3D tracking, such as Boujou. If you go the non-Mocon route, you should probably have at the very least a conversation with a VFX supervisor as to what to include in the foreground element to facilitate camera reconstruction, as well as any issues with shooting a tiled background for the purpose.

>I know that the perspective won't match perfectly but will it need to for a >scene that is mainly countryside?

Most likely, no.

>If we start by using the top of the 2K background plate and move down it >with the crane move so that we end up using the bottom of it do I really >need to tile the background?

Depends on how wide the window is and how much you have to see.

I just got done doing a number of shots like this (replacing background's outside windows in moving shots) and I found one of the best ways to do it was by doing a Boujou 3D track on the foreground and placing a static plane where the window is, letting the animated camera replace the more conventional 2D tracking (I used Combustion for compositing on this). Worked out quite well and "simulated" a bit of perspective distortion on the more "extreme" camera positions very nicely.

Sounds like fun.

Mike Most
VFX Supervisor
IATSE Local 600
Los Angeles

Geoff Boyle FBKS

>Oh, an alternative is to not move the background camera at all, just >shoot it much wider and scan that shot at 2K then move around the >image as appropriate.

Only problem...GRAIN, shoot 65mm for this effect. You can double the size of the frame thusly, and match 35mm grain structure

Nick Hoffman NYC600DP

>Depends on how wide the window is and how much you have to see.

Ah, there's the rub.

It's almost all the back wall on both floors!

I have to use a manual crane as we can't afford a MoCo big enough for the move.

We will use MoCo for the other 4 simpler set-ups, mainly to help my lighting, one pass, or multiples, with lights in shot ie in the right places to make the cabinets etc look good and a clean-up pass.

I do a lot of these commercials and they always seem to get ambitious with one shot

It's the same people I did this one for :-

/Sharps-2002-qt.htm

They work without a production company, it's direct with the agency, the creative director directing and they trust me to make it work.

I always check with the post guys when we get closer it's just right now I want to know whether to even bother thinking about it.

Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS
Director of Photography
EU Based
www.cinematography.net

Hi,

Geoff, you have the small MoCo already in the budget, I understood. Then it can’t be to difficult to put that rig, probably a converted Panther from Mark Roberts MoCo, on some sturdy scaffolding and do the first part of the move.

The software is able to get the lift-speeds the same for at least a big part of the moves. In the given time ( 2 x 5 secs) that should be possible.

The panther with the jib-arm can easily compensate for the curve by moving the dolly (Carthesian control).

Rob van Gelder,

Bangkok, Thailand
Steadicam, Lighting, Motion Control