The Pain Of Hand Holding The Camera

Hi everyone,

So I've done my share of handheld work on various shows over the years.

This time around, I'm on a long term show where we shoot handheld ALL THE TIME, from crew call to wrap time. I've suddenly been thrust into this work, as opposed to gradually breaking myself in.

So now I'm getting this wonderful pain down my shoulder that takes a few days to diminish. I'm guessing this is normal and my body will eventually adapt.

Or will it?

My question to CML'ers is, how do you handle taking care of your shoulder and back through long term handheld shoots ? Do people go through weekly massage therapy sessions? Is there a particular medicine / ointment people take to relieve this pain ? Does this pain eventually go away as the body gets stronger ?

Thanks,

Duraid Munajim
DP, Toronto

No, I don't believe it goes away. I had shot HH for a LOOOOONG time and it just got worse. I believe it is actually a mild short term nerve damage. I get it in my hand and shoulder down my arm, numbness and pain sometimes. There is a guy I found named Paul in Washington State who made a machined curved shoulder pad with gel in it some 5 years ago. It screws into where the baseplate goes and works like a charm. If I could remember what his machine shop # was I would put it on the site. It was made from billet aluminium and came with two high density pads. He made motorcycle seats for a living which is where I got the idea from. I would go to a seat maker and get one made. Mine cost about 175. Good luck.

Gerard Brigante

Duraid,

What camera are you using?

With my Aaton I usually add some extra padding like a wrapped towel if it's for longer time periods(usually nothing if it's not all handheld, since it fits well on the shoulder) I did an industrial training Pennzoil job that was 90% handheld, fast paced 2 camera w/ Sony PDX-10, 4 days non-stop-it makes you tired once you come out of the tripod because the camera (as we well know) isn't shoulder/handheld, but truly hand held in front of you-and after a while, even though it's smaller and lighter, it ends up killing you-perhaps it's the extra effort to stabilize, etc

A regular 35III set-up also kills you, but a 35 BL isn't that bad...I can't remember how much heavier the 535 w/ electronic shutter was compared to the regular 535, but I'm sure no one could last too long with them. Moviecamâ€™s would be better, and of course if you get to use an SL or Arricam...

The 235 should be a nice new addition when it arrives...Advil /stretching, massages help too

John Babl
Miami
*The Mitchell R-35 's /MkII had a weird inverted hand held mag option- but I suspect that without an orient able finder, wasn't too easy to deal with either..."

Duraid CML wrote:

>My question to CML'ers is, how do you handle taking care of your >shoulder and back through long term handheld shoots?

It's a matter of camera balance, IMHO. You want a camera that doesn't put weight on your arm, just on your shoulder -- wide enough not to be â€œtippyâ€.

What camera are you using?

Me, I prefer a flat-based camera (even though I love my Aatons). My favourite handholding camera was a modified CP16 non-reflex with 10mm Switar -- perfectly balanced with a wide base. That's one reason the Kinetta camera has a wide base and a good, low centre of gravity.

I have found that my right hand sometimes gets numb after a long take.

Never used to happen.

Jeff "those little DV cameras sure spoil you!" Kreines

Duraid CML wrote :

>This time around, I'm on a long term show where we shoot handheld >ALL THE TIME, from crew call to wrap time. I've suddenly been thrust >into this work, as opposed to gradually breaking myself in.

Sounds like reality.

In no particular order:

For Real muscle strains a Good multivitamin at the end of the day helps overworked muscles recover. I started doing triathlons this year and I can't tell you how much this little thing helps.

Head stands against a wall or if you can balance, with out a wall. Try to hold the position for a few minutes and breath fully while relaxing. If I am really out of kilter this can be a quick fix.

Remind yourself from time to time where your balance with the camera is : balance it on your shoulder and loosen your grip till you can remove your hands and stand still with the camera balancing (its a rental right?). This always helps tune up my body position.

If you're not in good shape, your body is going to take on some funny shapes to compensate as the day goes on. Ultimately I find these compensations are what make me hurt the most.

Mark Smith

>My question to CML'ers is, how do you handle taking care of your >shoulder and back through long term handheld shoots?

Lots of exercise and weightlifting...I am dead serious.

Jeffery Haas
Freelance editor, camera operator
Dallas, Texas

In replying to Duraid's post one would assume that he knows what cameras are well balanced, well designed in particular the film camera market, the video market is absolutely diabolical as far as ergonomic design is concerned.

I feel the drift in the post is the constant weight on your right shoulder neck & spine. I find during the shoot that an attentive AC or grip is extremely important to take the camera from you whenever there is a break in the shoot or rehearsal.

Post a long HH shoot & every month for me I have chiropractic treatment with therapeutic massage to keep my spine & neck in good condition. It helps to be physically fit & exercise to build neck & shoulder strength as well as back muscles.

My worst hand hold experience was when RCA released a video camera in the 70's called a TK 76, it had no ergonomic design at all & unfortunately most video camera designers used it as a bench mark for their own designs almost to this day.

I have to say my Aaton is still the best & most comfortable camera I have ever used.

There is nothing better than a dry martini & a back massage when I get home from a long shoot.

Bruce Hogan
Freelance Cinematographer
Sydney Australia.
Active Member Australian Cinematographers Society (ACS).

>Advil /stretching, massages help too...

Absolutely.

I had a recent job with the same HH days and it was painful. I found that Ibuprofen (Advil) helps as well as stretches with deep breathing exercises, all before the shoot. Stretches again at night with the Ibuprofen.

Drinking lot's of water helps me a lot too. It kind of lubricates the muscles to have a good amount of fluids in your system. Massage helps as well. I find it important to get a good nights rest after and before shoot days. This helps the muscles rejuvenate. And a massage can help them relax and restore themselves.

On problem I encounter especially shooting DV is that sometimes my hand gets numb in the zoom control on the lense. I have to shake it to alleviate the problem but it is annoying when I'm in the middle of shooting and I can't stop.

BTW - KUDOS - Nice articles on CML members, John Babl and Jeff Barklage, in the Kodak mag "InCamera" this month. Nice to be in the same mag with Storaro. I hope I didn't miss anyone else from the CML. Congrats!

Jim Sofranko
NY/DP

Hi Duraid,

Pop into an office supply or computer store and scope out the keyboard and mouse wrist pads. Some of them are excellent there is one that has beads in it like a bean bag that works very nicely. Those are the best shoulder pads that I have found. If the camera isn't rolling the AC or grip should be holding it or you should at least reposition it so that the weight is in a different spot.

Back support, such as a lifting belt can help tremendously and really reduce fatigue.

Best,

Anders Uhl
Cinematographer, NY
the dop shop
http://www.thedopshop.com

>My worst hand hold experience was when RCA released a video >camera in the 70's called a TK 76, it had no ergonomic design at all & >unfortunately most video camera designers used it as a bench mark for >their own designs almost to this day.

---And there was also a 120 pound monstrosity known as the Norelco PCP-70.

Jeffery Haas
Freelance editor, camera operator
Dallas, Texas

BTW - KUDOS - Nice articles on CML members, John Babl and Jeff Barklage, in the Kodak mag "InCamera" this month.

Thanks Jim, and thanks to David Heuring and Mike Brown from Kodak. (That was hand holding a 435 by the way, much more comfortable than a 35III even without the HH accessories) I'd also like to thank everyone that's helped out over the years : John Palmisano at Manhattan Transfer, Vinny and everyone at Cineworks, Susan, Charlie, John and Curtiss at Cinema East, JR, Dawson and everyone at CVT, Glenn, Nestor, and Ken at Continental-and CML for sharing information that helps learning in the real world conditions, when there's so much to learn.

Interesting to see that Kodak will now "fade out" the VNF stocks and keep just the 7285 as color reversal. Perhaps more labs will offer processing(and schools start using it) It looks amazing projected(I did, w/ my Singer projector to see) Perhaps a fast version of the stock could be introduced (320?) I suppose 100' daylight spools will also be available for Bolexes, etc. (I wonder if the new Kodak catalogue is out yet...)

Best regards,

John F. Babl
Miami

Hi Duraid,

I suggest to look in your neighbourhood for a gym specialised in stretching exercises. The one I used to go, as now I am fully in shape is Kieser training, they are all over Europe.

It is not an usual gym, you are not going to lose weight or get a six pack but it is an excellent therapy for stretching, especially the back muscles. Since then no problems. You only need a 1/2 hr, two three times a week.

As an assistant besides carrying the gear up and down, left and right I handheld the camera a lot in between takes for my various skippers and I can only recommend that type of exercise. At Kieser or at similar places you are also medically followed, that is very important as well.

Regards
Emmanuel from Beirut

Hi,

There is a product called EasyRig, which is sort of a poor man's Steadicam. Basically it is a 'bungy' type rig attached to a body harness with an overhead pod. I have one for my Arri 435 and find that it is great for easing the back/shoulder load but it still requires hand hold type operating control.

It takes a little getting used to if you are running with it as it has a tendency to 'bob' with your body movement until you learn to set the tension so that you still have to carry some weight.

Not employed by EasyRig.

David Wakeley.
Sydney

I'm surprised that for all the replies to this problem of hand-holding pain, no one has mentioned either of two support systems that transfer all the camera's weight to the hips :

Marztech - http://www.marztech.com/

and

Easyrig - http://www.easyrig.se/

Maybe uncool, but they sure do the job.

Rick Wise

Nothing is "uncool" if it stops damage to your back...

David Walpole

Cinematographer with VERY Bad back experience

Australian CML Admin/Moderator

Perth Australia

Neil Reichline wrote :

>I found the BL3 to be far better balanced with the 1000' mag than with >the 400' mag, though it weighs 56 lbs loaded.

Absolutely. I always insist on a 1000' mag for handholding with the BL. Often my AC's look at me like I'm crazy.

Blain Brown
DP
LA

I shot handheld for many years, with an Eclair NPR in documentary years (what a gem that camera was for hand holding) and with an Arri BL3 in commercial years. I found the BL3 to be far better balanced with the 1000' mag than with the 400' mag, though it weighs 56 lbs loaded. I also used a super-light weight brace made by Jim Meade when he was with Clairmont that was simply the best. It kept the weight on the shoulder, not in front, with a grip for the right hand close to the chest that allowed that hand to use a focus whip as well. It was ideal and Clairmont probably still has a few for rental. I found the whole set up balanced nicely and easy to hold even with the weight.

Among the directors I shot commercials with one used handheld all the time and didn't like to ever turn off the camera. So I was shooting full 1000' loads all day long. I worked with this director for over 24 years. Until recent years I never had a problem (seriously). In recent years I had no problems shooting either, but two or three days after a shoot was done I would get a back ache that wouldn't let up. So, I simply don't do the handheld with the BL anymore. I've tried the Aaton -- nice. The director asks for longer loads I just say that he's not paying me enough for the pain and suggest another way to get the shot.

Stay healthy. It's not worth the sacrifice of your bodily health for someone else's dream.

Neil Reichline
DP LA

>I'm surprised that for all the replies to this problem of hand-holding >pain, no one has mentioned either of two support systems that transfer >all the camera's weight to the hips

I think these types of rigs have a place for certain types of shooting.

Usually when I'm shooting hand-held video or 16mm I most often prefer the flexibility of not being tied to a rig. Maybe it's simply out of habit. I like to be able to place the camera on tables, floors and such without being constrained by a rig. And a good assistant will watch for you to hand off the rig when the shot is over.

Now if I was hand-holding a 35mm rig (especially at 56 lbs!) then those types of rigs seem a lot more appealing. But if I were to be shooting long periods of time on 35mm then I would be much more inclined to find a suitable operator for the type of rig that's most appropriate.

Jim Sofranko
NY/DP

Jim Sofranko wrote:

>Now if I was hand-holding a 35mm rig (especially at 56 lbs!) then those >types of rigs seem a lot more appealing.

The trouble with all rigs is that they are one dimensional : great if you are standing up camera on shoulder, lousy if you need to be in any other position, like curled up in the back of a golf cart with a BL and a 1K mag.

Its a case of giving up something ( camera placement) to get something like a little more load distribution. does not seem like a good trade off to me unless you're always shooting from a standing position with the camera on your shoulder.

Mark Smith
Oh Seven Films
143 Grand St
Jersey City, NJ 07302

Thanks to all for the incredible answers and words of advice.

To answer the question, the camera we are using is a something that should be talked about in CML-video and/or a DSR500 fully loaded (mattebox, Anton Bauer brick, two wireless transmitters). I don't know how much it weighs exactly but I'm guessing it's somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30 pounds.

So lately I've been more careful, making sure to drink a lot of water, stretch between shots, etc. I've also been keeping up a habit with abdominal exercises, and that has helped.

It doesn't help that I'm going through a cold right now to add to the pain.

My respect for ENG shooters who have to handhold a camera all day, every day for 5 days a week, has increased tremendously.

Best,

Duraid Munajim
www.duraid.ca

Mark Smith wrote :

>Its a case of giving up something (camera placement) to get >something like a little more load distribution. Does not seem like a >good trade off to me unless you're always shooting from a standing >position with the camera on your shoulder.

That's why we designed the Kinetta camera to be usable in "one-piece" mode and "two-piece" mode. There are times you want a balanced camera, and times you want a really small camera...

Jeff "information not advertising!" Kreines

Jeffery Haas writes :

>And there was also a 120 pound monstrosity known as the Norelco >PCP-70.

Argh. . .Three huge orthicons, a heavy zoom and a very heavy cable. The first "portable" 3-tube color camera. But 120 lbs??? Are you sure?

Jeff Kreines writes :

>My favourite handholding camera was a modified CP16

Mine, too.. but with a thin (1/4-inch) neoprene foam pad on the bottom. Any thicker or softer and it would get tippy and sloppy. Any harder and it would give me a callus on my bony shoulder.

>those little DV cameras sure spoil you!

In more ways than one.

I've been shooting a long docco (over 60 hrs in the can so far) with a something that should be talked about in CML-video. Being able to travel with such a light, compact camera, tripod and lighting kit has been a godsend -- we couldn't be making this film otherwise. And by being diligent about exposures and lighting ratios I've gotten quite satisfying results.

But ergonomically the camera is a disaster. They used to call me the "human tripod," but I confess I have no talent whatsoever for handholding the something that should be talked about in CML-video, other than at full-wide zoom with a WA adaptor. In one situation where I needed to get tight close-ups in a classroom situation I spent so much time trying to find ways to brace myself that I blew a lot of potentially knockout ECU's.

So I've gotten into the habit of using the tripod in many situations where I'd ordinarily do it handheld. Argh.

Does anyone here have any experience with the Anton Bauer brace that partially counterweights the camera with a battery? It doesn't look as if there's sufficient weight back there to really balance it effectively???

Jim Sofranko writes :

>On problem I encounter especially shooting DV is that sometimes my >hand gets numb in the zoom control on the lense.

I get the same thing -- but it's more like a cramp that feels like an electric shock! So I tend to support the camera more with my palm and not hold it so tight. I almost always use the something that should be talked about in CML-video's zoom ring, which also helps because I don't have to grip the camera quite so hard with my right hand.

Someone should compile a book full of colourful stories by camera folk who've had to maintain excruciating positions (or couldn't scratch an itch) for the duration of a film roll, or a tape, or (gaaak...) an entire event.

John Babl writes :

>Sony PDX-10, 4 days non-stop...even though it's smaller and lighter, it >ends up killing you-perhaps it's the extra effort to stabilize, etc

I've been eyeing the PDX-10 for some time but havenâ€™t had a chance to use one. Once you've added the weight of a WA adaptor is it at least easier than the PD-150 -- ? What about sensitivity? (Need about an additional stop of light?)

How about the lack of a smooth zoom ring? And what about the results video-wise? Have you seen any large-screen projections? Were you shooting 16x9?

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

>My question to CML'ers is, how do you handle taking care of your >shoulder and back through long term handheld shoots?

By not taking long term handheld shoots.

I wrecked my back camera assisting, and while it has gotten better over time a couple of days of serious handheld work will cause me a world of pain. I just try not to do it anymore.

Over my better judgement I took three days of work this week on a reality show that came to shoot in my area. It actually wasn't too bad for reality show; it could have been much worse, but in fact I only had to run around handheld for about a half hour each day, except for the first day. The first day I had a DSR-570 handheld on a sailboat. That was a bit of a workout but not too bad. The other days, though, they loaded me up with two radio audio receivers and a UHF video transmitter. The camera had to have weighed 30-35 lbs. Then I had to run down a street following some people.

My back hasn't been quite the same since.

I've decided reality show work is not for me. There are people who are very talented at that kind of work, and they can have it. My back can't handle it.

I do very good handheld work, but I don't seek it out. My back is not my selling point; I sell the thoughts that come out of that gray thing at the top of my spine.

Art Adams, DP [film|hidef|video]
San Francisco Bay Area - "Silicon Valley"
Dramatic License #CA14886
http://www.artadams.net/

>Argh. Three huge orthicons, a heavy zoom and a very heavy cable. The >first "portable" 3-tube color camera. But 120 lbs??? Are you sure?

---Most folks don't realize that what they see in those old pics is just the "optics" section of the camera. The original PCP "mini-cam" series was a two piece system, with the bulk of the electronics in a separate case worn on the back of the operator. My first "real" commercial edit job was a Leon Russell concert video that was shot in 1972 using five Norelco cameras, two of them were PCP-70's. The show was the first long form rock concert shot on videotape (2" Quad!) instead of film and it was basically the "Leon Live" album tour. There are several good shots of the "mini-cam" operators wrestling these beasts up by the stage and believe me, they are enormous...

I was really amazed at the picture of the "Handy-Lookie" on your website because it reminds me of the PCP-70, minus a few pounds! Same 2-piece configuration but a much smaller optics system.

120 lbs is an educated guess since I was able to estimate that the front optics weighed in at 45 to 50 pounds easily. (I got a chance to hoist one at a shop once) I figure that the "backpack" had to weigh the same or slightly more. The entire rig rested on a "body cage" that was constructed of tubular steel which was supported by both the back and the hips.

I could be off by twenty pounds or so...maybe even thirty, but that's still 90 pounds give or take (OUCH).

By the way, both the mini-cam operators looked to be the size of the average visigoth, and they still had a tough time with these beasts. I'm glad that I own the rights to this concert, but I sure am glad that I didn't have to shoot with one of those "mini's".....I don't think my poor old back would have survived.

Jeffery Haas
freelance editor, camera operator
Dallas, Texas

Duraid Munajim writes :

>Does this pain eventually go away as the body gets stronger ?

I hope for your sake that it does...but as Gerard indicated it is possibly unlikely.

For my part...I have had two levels of discs in my neck collapse...been thru the subsequent operations...without success...and I still have constant pain.

Been thru the pain killers...they can cause more trouble than their worth with long term use...

My advise to you is to have a bigger crew...if the budget isn't there for more crew, tell the producer to get a bigger budget...or at worst...tell the producer to help carry some of the gear.

Insist on having someone to help you...really it is not a big ask.

You certainly don't want to take the attitude that you are "bullet proof"...I can assure you that at the end of the day the job will be long forgotten...and the pain will still be with you...

Oh yeh...be VERY careful with yourself...especially taking into account that spinal injuries never look good on the CV...trust me on that one...whether people will admit it or not you make it known that you have back/spinal issues the writing is on the wall as far as the continuation of your employment is concerned.

BUT that is another story altogether...

Regards,

David Walpole
Cinematographer with a very sore neck
Australian CML Admin / Moderator
www.cinematography.net
Perth Australia

Rick Wise wrote :

>You guy's should try shooting "Scrapheap Challenge" (or "Junkyard >Wars" in the US). 2 hrs non stop shooting with 5 min breaks for tapes >and battery changes!

OK its shot on SX which doesn't weigh as heavy as 535 I grant you but after an 15 hr shoot you soon notice it!

For those that care :

We start at 0600, on camera from 0700. The four main cameras then run continuously from 1000 to 2300. Four cameras with six cameramen in two teams doing 2 hours on and 1 hr off. 1 hr off for lunch and 1/2 hour off for tea. A fifth camera is manned with its own operator for links interviews etc.

No, if I can only work out how to do the Christmas special (3 teams) with six cameras and only 7 cameramen!

Michael Sanders
Website & CV at : www.glowstars.demon.co.uk

>You guy's should try shooting "Scrapheap Challenge" (or "Junkyard >Wars"

---I am addicted to that show.

Jeffery Haas
Freelance editor, camera operator
Dallas

>I had shot HH for a LOOOOONG time and it just got worse>

>I have found that my right hand sometimes gets numb after a long take. >Never used to happen.

>For Real muscle strains a Good multivitamin at the end of the >dayâ€¦have chiropractic treatment with therapeutic massage...

Wow.

Please forgive the excessive quoting and self-endorsement, however, I think I have found my niche. I've been building HH support for HH guys for a long time. No one setup works for everyone. Every body type needs it's own rig. Believe me, I've been working with the best in the biz in HH photography for quite some time I've built different rigs for everyone I work with. Until this thread, everyone I've worked with I've thought
Phhh...pre-Madonna.

I didn't know everyone has been suffering from the same problem. I've made several different rigs for SR3's, XTR's, 435's, F900's.

I'm happy doing one-off's for individual users. Machining/fabricating pretty pictures is my passion.

Steve Richer
Camera Technician
NFL Films

For front-heavy cameras, how about :

- A lightweight body frame (with integral, well vented, multipocket vest) that can lace up tightly, acting simultaneously much like an elastic back brace.

- A quick-release so you can pop the camera on and off in a flash.

- Power contacts in the quick-release, so back-mounted high-capacity batteries can power the camera most of the time, and also help counterweight it. (You'd then need only a small, lightweight battery on the camera itself).

Although my bend-to-the-left scoliosis actually makes shoulder holding easy for me, my congenital lower-back gnarliness (don't ask) now makes it hard for me to bear the weight of serious rigs. If someone built something like the above system, I'd certainly beat a path to their door.

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Don't fool around. See an orthopaedist.

I discovered that I had actually worn down a vertebrae by the strange posture required for hand holding. I could hardly walk and my back would lock up bending over a tripod.

Exercise is the key to happiness, but it should be designed for your particular problem by a doctor after x rays and examination to pinpoint the problem, not made up by a friend, chiropractor or therapist. The doc saved my back and my career after others had only made it worse.

Numbness in your fingers while hand holding is probably carpal tunnel syndrome. Ask the doc about that too.

If you can, bring a camera and show the doc what we have to do. He'll be horrified.

Good Luck

Eric Camiel
Dir / Cam New York

>I'm surprised that for all the replies to this problem of hand-holding >pain, no one has mentioned either of two support systems that transfer >all the camera's weight to the hips

I've been using the Easyrig for several years. I seldom put a camera on my shoulder anymore without it. It's not ideal for everything, but the trade off for me is immense. I don't kink in the lower back anymore and can really go for hours with out fatigue. There is a learning curve finding the ways to hold the most steady. I can't imagine being a seasoned (middle aged) cameraman without one.

If any of you SF bay area cameramen want to try one on, you could try to sync up with me. I'm glad to show it off and help save your back.

Disclaimer : I have no connection with any seller or association with folks at EasyRig, etc...

Robin Hirsh
DP - Berkeley

Eric Camiel writes :

>Exercise is the key to happiness, but it should be designed for your >particular problem by a doctor after x rays and examination to pinpoint >the problem, not made up by a friend, chiropractor or therapist.

I've found it best to consult a variety of authorities -- to listen to the orthopaedist, but also to the chiropractor. There are good and bad in both camps, so don't be afraid to shop around and see what works best in your own experience.

>Numbness in your fingers while hand holding is probably carpal >tunnel syndrome.

I believe it can also result from misaligned cervical vertebrae. That's one of the areas in which a good chiropractor can be helpful.

>If you can, bring a camera and show the doc what we have to do. He'll >be horrified.

No doubt!

We need a few good docs to consult on the design of the definitive, modular, scaleable body-brace system that can be adapted to all kinds of cameras and shooting styles.

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Dan Drasin writes :

>We need a few good docs to consult on the design of the definitive, >modular, scaleable body-brace system that can be adapted to all kinds >of cameras and shooting styles.

Mate, I couldn't agree more with this...but how about getting a few technicians into positions where these design modifications can actually be directed by, or in conjunction with the "troops" on the ground...so to speak.

I can recall having many...many discussions with "station management"...I might that add "station management" who had just been put into the position by even higher beings because the particular individual was very good at counting "beans"... but had bugger all experience at the coal face...two spinal ops later...

Granted...there have been many design modifications...BUT... until the people who "use" the gear are the people who "choose" the gear...the same old problems will continue to re-occur...sad but true.

Regards,

David Walpole
Back Pain Inc.
Australian CML Admin / Moderator
Perth Australia

David Walpole writes :

>how about getting a few technicians into positions where these design >modifications can actually be directed by, or in conjunction with the >"troops" on the ground

But of course. Put the users together with the designers, engineers and doctors. In the words of Aldous Huxley, "Nothing short of everything will do."

>"station management" who had just been put into the position by >even higher beings

What in heaven's name would higher beings be doing at a TV station?

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Dan Drasin writes :

>What in heaven's name would higher beings be doing at a TV station?

One thing's for sure, however you choose to describe the upper levels of management, at no stage were those individuals looking after the occupational health & safety of their staff and I can testify to that.

The bottom line is that you deserve a safe working environment... and if it's not...then it damn well should be... and changes have to be made.

Still to this day...cameraman ...for that matter entire crews are expected to perform tasks that will, at the end of the day...have disasterous results to their health...

David Walpole
Australian CML Admin/ Moderator.

Perth Australia