16mm Black & White Thru TK

I am going to shoot a short on B&W. Main part will be shot on true B&W film stock, but one part will be shot on colour neg (probably 7217) - which will be a different milieu, so PERFECT match is not the issue (its a greenscreen thing). The mastering format will be DV, unfortunately.

I have just seen a music video shot on 7246 TK'ed to DV, and it really suffered in getting right the shoulder area of the neg. The transition to white was hard digital clipping, even on soft lighted close-ups.

Highlights being so important in B&W lighting, and unavoidable in my case where part of the scenario is summer EXT, how to get an as smooth as possible transition to white really preoccupies me, it be either in choice of stock (reversal/negative?), lighting, TK or postproduction. Any advice or ideas would make me most grateful.

Ã˜ystein Mamen
Student of Cinematography,
The Norwegian National Film School
Gamlevegen 110
2615 Lillehammer
Norway

Ã˜ystein Mamen wrote:

>so PERFECT match is not the issue (itâ€™s a greenscreen thing). The >mastering format will be DV, unfortunately.

Greenscreen and DV do NOT mix -- you'll never pull a decent matte using DV. The color sampling is the problem.

Jeff Kreines

>I have just seen a music video shot on 7246 TKÂ´ed to DV, and it really >suffered in getting right the shoulder area of the neg. The transition to >white was hard digital clipping, even on soft lighted close-ups.

I've recovered stuff almost 6 stops over from 7246 on a Spirit. Really. Now the extremes needed Power Windows. But still....

(no I don't go out overexposing 5-6 stops, this was stuff I thought was just blown away, fine with the director, but we could get it back if we wanted it)

Have also transferred B&W print (7361 - pretty contrasty) from Tri-X and Plus-X reversal. I mean that's going right to the D-min of it, and it's fine. (the deep shadows block a bit, but B&W reversal doesn't give any wiggle room in the shadows).

This is Spirit w/ DaVinci 888.

Sam Wells

Thanks for the recommendations!

Ill be going for shooting colour and make it B&W in TK. I saw some 7222 recently shot in an SR3, and it was all slightly out of focus, there seems to be a adjustment needed when shooting the thinner B&W emulsions in modern cameras.

I'd prefer to shoot real B&W, because it seems to pick up more nuances in contrast, and for its special grain structure, but all the material from the lab which had been used on the footage I saw had white flashes coming in pretty often, lasting between 1/2 a second and a second, not flare, but looking as if the DP had a 10K lamp behind her head and removed her eye from the viewfinder from time to time.

I was on the set and know this wasnâ€™t the case. Since I havenâ€™t been able to get any good reasons why this has occurred - might be the lab - I wont take the risk.

Ã˜ystein Mamen
Student of Cinematography,
The Norwegian National Film School
Lillehammer
Norway

I'd get that camera checked before I ran any film stock through it.

Was the mag even latched securely ? Video tap checked re light leaks ? etc etc.

I sure don't see the B&W as you describe as a lab problem.

Sam Wells

Sam Wells wrote :

>I'd get that camera checked before I ran any film stock through it. I sure >don't see the B&W as you describe as a lab problem.

Iâ€™m not saying it must be a lab problem, but I wonâ€™t have the time before shooting to check out the all the possible different sources for the flashes on the film.

What makes me think it not being a camera problem, is that they shot colour and B&W on the same camera, interchanging mags for every scene. The colour footage show no problem of any kind, on neither of the two rolls. Both B&W rolls had this problem.

Ã˜ystein Mamen
Student of Cinematography,
The Norwegian National Film School
Lillehammer
Norway

Ã˜ystein Mamen wrote :

>The colour footage show no problem of any kind, on neither of the two >rolls. Both B&W rolls had this problem.

Most likely :

A) Light bouncing back through the base.

B) Static Electricity.

Steven Gladstone
www.gladstonefilms.com
Cinematographer - Gladstone Films
Cinematography Mailing List - East Coast List Administrator
Better off Broadcast (B.O.B.)
New York, U.S.A.

>I saw had white flashes coming in pretty often, lasting between 1/2 a >second and a second,

> B) Static Electricity.

Disconnect that Vandegraaff generator RIGHT AWAY

Sam Wells

P.S. Seriously, it's impossible to respond if someone prefers to speculate rather than analyse and isolate the problem

I didn't mean you Steven.

Sam Wells