Fastest High Speed In S16mm

Hi everyone,

Music video in a couple of weeks where the director wants a super-slow motion of a guy jumping - so much so that it seems he's 'hovering' in the air.

Am I mistaken to assume the Actionmaster is the fastest one can go in super-16mm? I believe it's 500fps. Next step down is the Arri SR2 or 3 HS @ 150fps.

I've seen specialized older 16mm cameras that claim to go faster, but I don't think it would be feasible to rent these nowadays, plus some high speed cameras are only regular 16mm and need double perf stock.

Production is happening in Montreal, meaning we can rent from Toronto or New York, maybe LA if the shipping doesn't kill us. I heard that you can rent an action master in New York, but wouldn't know where.

Thanks in advance !

Duraid Munajim
DP, Toronto based

Hi Duraid,

I think you will find a regular the maximum speed on a 16mm Actionmaster is 500 fps a S16 one is 360 fps.

Stephen Williams DoP
Zurich

www.stephenw.com

Sure he's not looking for a "dead time" effect such as used in The Matrix instead of a slo-mo?

Richard Torpey
VP Engineering
Rhinoceros/Multivideo Group
50 East 42 Street
New York, NY 10017

Hello,

Use a high speed digital camera like the NAC K 4 Memeri cam if this is for video, not for the big screen.

Denny Clairmont

Next step down from Actionmaster is, I believe the Photosonics 1 PL and 1-VN. The 1PL is, I believe, only avail in double perf, but the 1-VN is avail single or double perf. If using the super 16mm version, they claim 168 fps

Photosonics is out here in Burbank

Mark Weingartner
LA based

>>Music video in a couple of weeks where the director wants a super->>slow motion of a guy jumping - so much so that it seems he's >>'hovering' in the air.

Here in Mexico there is an SR2 that was modified in Germany to run at 200 fps... I don’t remember if the call it SR@ evolution or Advanced or something like that... I'm sure there are more of these close to you. However, I suspect that 200fps might not be enough to achieve what you mention.

Jaime Reynoso, AMC
Cinefotógrafo
México

Hi Duraid,

I'm not sure Photosonics still rents it, but the NAC E-10 did 300-10000 fps Used I believe on a Sears commercial, bullet flying out of a gun-

John Babl
Dp
Miami
Currently in Brazil

Just a thought why not shoot on a SR HS @150fps and then use one of the plug ins for magic bullet (I believe) is a pixel analyser and can do really good video slo-mo. I'm sure one of the many guru's out their will know the name of this soft ware. I don't think it's much coming in at few hundred dollars or so and the demo I saw was really good even on DV!

As a cinematographer I know the "let's get it in camera" but hey it might be time to hand over to the boys in a dark room to save some time and money!

Dave Le May
Cinematographer
Perth WA
www.davidlemay.com

>> video slo-mo. I'm sure one of the many guru's out their will know the >>name

Twixtor. Retimer.

Phil Rhodes
Video camera/edit
London

Duraid Munajim sent :

>>Am I mistaken to assume the Actionmaster is the fastest one can go in >>super-16mm? I believe it's 500fps. Next step down is the Arri SR2 or 3 >>HS @ 150fps.

I wonder if you could run Single perf through a Redlake Hycam? You'd have to modify the sprocket rollers, and for Super 16 certainly the aperture (possibly the optics?) But since there is no intermittent movement, I wonder if it would work. Registration isn't great, but at 10,000 frames a second?

Shot some artists balloon sculptures being shredded by shotgun pellets once. Amazing. Could also see the Shell casings fly, but not the pellets.

I think there is a resolution limitation because of the prism (68 line pairs if I recall.)

Steven Gladstone
N.Y. based Cinematographer
www.gladstonefilms.com
917 886 5858

Thanks for all the feedback - very cool

Denny Clairmont - the idea of using a digital high speed camera is a good one, except the music video is only 2 weeks away and there's no time to test how well the digital will cut with the super 16mm main footage.

Richard Torpey wrote :

>>Sure he's not looking for a "dead time" effect such as used in The >>Matrix instead of a slo-mo?

Dave Lemay wrote :

>>Just a thought why not shoot on a SR HS @150fps and then use one >>of the plug ins for magic bullet (I believe) is a pixel analyser and can >>do really good video slo-mo.

We discussed this with the director and looked at different examples, and yet, it seems, based on his previous post experience it seems we need a higher frame rate than the Arri SR HS.

Right now we are likely going to rent the Photosonics Action Master from the New York rep (once producer approves budget), and the possibility has arisen of using the Actionmaster for the whole shoot, even the 24fps.

It seems likely according to the specs (can run at 24fps sync supposedly), I should just call Photosonics and verify.

Cheers,

Duraid Munajim
DP, Toronto based (not too far from Grenoble, France)

>>It seems likely according to the specs (can run at 24fps sync >>supposedly), I should just call Photosonics and verify.

I would check this out. It's been a while but I think I remember that the speed control at 24fps ain't crystal - it's some kind of " velocity control " ( I think ).

Also, as the Action Master uses a beamsplitter prism you will be limited as to the lenses you can use. ( The viewfinder ain't great either... )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Taylor
Camera and Lens Engineer
ARRI Media
DDI:01895 457141
Tel: 01895 457100
Fax: 01895 457101

>>I wonder if you could run Single perf through a Redlake Hycam? You'd >>have to modify the sprocket rollers,

I have 3 Hycam's 1 Redlake and 2 new Visual Inst. (circa 2003) the optical system will certainly not cover the Super-16 frame and the sprocket which is driven by the film is made from titanium so machining it would be hard. The newer Hycam (Visual Instrumentation Co.) with new electronics has surprisingly good registration you could shoot Std.16 and take a center extraction from it for HD or 2K. YMMV with stock used, Fuji makes double perf 500D and 250T/500T Kodak also has several good new stocks in double perf. Max framerate on the Hycam in std16 is 12k fps the newer cameras will hit max framerate in the first 80 feet of a 400' roll while the older cameras would only hit that at the last 80-100' of a 400' roll plus the newer camera has much better speed regulation which in a rotary prism camera means better registration. The optical system is a T4 so lens openings less than that only increase flare and lead to less performance.

Robert Houllahan
lunarfilms@mindspring.com
Filmmaker
VP Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com

The Photosonics action master goes 360fps, the lens mount is PL is has some limitations for 35mm lenses, the eye piece is a bit of a drag its true. The Mags are tougher get yourself a good loader and get them trained, trust me on this one! the series 3000 body is crystal so it will also go 24fps with no problem. again get yourself a couple of Good AC's. Be aware that occasionally you may get some scratching in the nonperf side of the film.

The Action master standard 16 goes to 500 fps

Any other questions contact me or call Al at Photosonics.

Jim Matlosz
DP