RED ONE D.I.T

There is a lot more to being a DIT then just drag and drop. It has turned into a very multifaceted job. Also its a linchpin job where you’re dealing with making sure your footage is intact and properly backed up. Also some DIT's can and do work with making quick synced rushes and such too for on-set verification. Knowledge of the RED or digital workflow also is needed. Also you may be backing up and restoring Looks right on the camera. This lets you influence what you see on the camera. Great for judging things.

Check out ... http://fxphd.com ... They do great classes on DIT and red workflow each term.
I have found them very worth the money.

CJ Adams
Colorist/Editor
Simplicity Digital Post
http://simplexitydigital.com

CJ Adams wrote:

>>There is a lot more to being a DIT then just drag and drop. ... you’re dealing with making sure your >>footage is intact and properly backed up....making quick synced rushes and such too for on-set >>verification.

You're describing the job of a data wrangler, or a loader. A DIT' s job is to deal with the camera, not to back up files and create dailies. I know there are other forums in which it seems to be fair game to redefine any term at any time to mean anything one wants it to mean. But this is the CML, and when specific industry terminology is used here, it should be correct. The term DIT has a specific meaning and refers to a specific crew position. And it's not what you're describing, even if the camera is a Red One.

Mike Most
Technologist and Occasional Terminology Cop
Woodland Hills, CA.

Actually,

If you are describing the DIT position on a union set, then you should know that handling of camera generated data is definitely part of the DIT scope of work, much the same way that handling the video tape is when we shoot HD.

Dave Satin
Video Engineer
New York City

There is a lot of confusion and overlap in this area. For example, in Los Angeles, local 695 (sound and recordists) claims jurisdiction over recording, data wrangling and the like. That being said, more often than not, when I am out on a union shoot and using something like the Red or another data camera, I will also be handling all the data wrangling as well, even though I am a local 600 (camera/dp) member. And this is more the rule than the exception… It’s safe to say that these jurisdictions are pretty much etched in marshmallow and vary from region to region and even greatly within regions.

Tom Tcimpidis
Los Angeles-based video and data guy

Dave Satin wrote :

>>If you are describing the DIT position on a union set, then you should know that handling of camera >>generated data is definitely part of the DIT scope of work, much the same way that handling the video tape >>is when we shoot HD

Handling, yes. Duplicating and converting, no. At least not according to anyone I've talked to at Local 600. Admittedly, It's a rather slippery slope these days in terms of jurisdiction, because most jurisdictional classifications are based on either a pure film set, or a pure videotape set. Data cameras don't fall very neatly into either one, so some things are, admittedly, evolving. But part of the problem in the Red world specifically has been the tendency of people who have little experience in the mainstream industry to take a very cavalier attitude towards terminology redefinition, calling things whatever they want and whatever "they've heard," whether it fits or not.

Dave, if you have the "official" description handy - or if you know where to find it - it might be useful to post it here. I looked through the contracts and I can't find it, although I'm looking at the contracts currently on the Local 600 website, which are a bit outdated in some cases.

Mike Most
Technician
Woodland Hills, CA.

I have not been on the CML for nearly two years, but I think I found a way to log back on, and I am posting this. I'll know soon if I succeeded.

My friend was right. This is important.

Tom Tcimpidis wrote:

>>in Los Angeles, local 695 (sound and recordists) claims jurisdiction over recording, data wrangling and >>the like.

Local 695 may claim jurisdiction, that's okay, I respect local 695 and their jurisdiction, but on my set this person is my hire. I am his direct Supervisor. Local 695 must respect my right to hire as I see fit, I extend my apologies to them, no offense meant.

>>That being said, more often than not, when I am out on a union shoot and using something like the >>Red or another data camera, I will also be handling all the data wrangling as well, even though I am a >>local 600 member.

When I hire, I first go to the Local 600 well.

It’s safe to say that these jurisdictions are pretty much etched in marshmallow
If I can reinforce my belief that this is camera department work, I will do exactly that.
My interview, my hire, my employee, my department.
I am pro union, and future oriented. No offense meant to anyone...
I counted to 20... See you all next year.

David Stump ASC
Director of Photography
Visual Effects Supervisor
L.A., Calif.

Tom Tcimpidis wrote:

>>in Los Angeles, local 695 (sound and recordists) claims jurisdiction over recording, data wrangling and >>the like.

Clearly, I should have placed much more emphasis on CLAIMS… Last time I calculated, I would need something like 3 different IA local cards and 7 classifications to do everything I routinely do. And then there is NABET, which I also hold… Some of the IA jurisdictional machinations are simply silly and counterproductive in my opinion. YMMV.

Tom Tcimpidis
L.A. jurisdictional rabble rouser

Tom Tcimpidis wrote:

>>Some of the IA jurisdictional machinations are simply silly and counterproductive in my opinion.

I don't disagree. And I think that at some point in the near future - probably before the newly signed contract is expired - the entire notion of locals and jurisdictions should probably be revisited and re- evaluated to see if it still works in a new age of smaller and more tightly budgeted production, particularly for television.
But hey, no matter how nasty this stuff gets, we're not anywhere near the self destructive, dysfunctional group that SAG has become.

Mike Most
Technologist (and Local 600 member)
Woodland Hills, CA.

>>But hey, no matter how nasty this stuff gets, we're not anywhere near the self destructive, dysfunctional >>group that SAG has become.

Amen, and Thank God for small favors!
Tom Tcimpidis
Jurisdictional Agnostic

>>But hey, no matter how nasty this stuff gets, we're not anywhere near the self destructive, dysfunctional >>group that SAG has become.

And yet, SAG holds ten times the power on even the smallest shoots than the IA has ever imagined having in its wildest fantasies.

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

Bob Kertesz wrote:

>>And yet, SAG holds ten times the power on even the smallest shoots than the IA has ever imagined >>having in its wildest fantasies.

Not in television. Not anymore.

That's not to say that above the line in general doesn't wield considerable power on a production. Of course they do. But SAG as an organization has very seriously diluted their position by essentially handing all future television work over to AFTRA. My own prediction is that the long debated SAG-AFTRA merger will happen before the next negotiating round two years from now, if only because I don't see how SAG or its health and pension funds can be maintained without the contributions it gets from television production.

Not to mention that their shenanigans have artificially accelerated the demise of film from television production by at least a year, maybe 2. That may not mean much to some, but if you either work in or own a major post facility, it's a very, very big deal.

Mike Most
Technologist
Woodland Hills, CA.

On-set who does Sound and VA report too....The 1st AD. The DIT doesn't report to the 1st AD.

The D.I.T / Digital Loader is a IA600 position who reports to the D.P. Is this still being discussed? I specialize in Data Capture and though I work closely with Sound,? who are mostly data oriented and take the time as Data Supervisor to assure their data is collected and dispersed to Editorial or Post.

I personally don't know any data wranglers who are in 695 anyways?

Dane Brehm
310.710.2658
Cinema Data Tech / IA600 DIT
Phantom | Red | S.Two

Dane Brehm wrote:

>>On-set who does Sound and VA report too....The 1st AD. The DIT doesn't report to the 1st AD.

That's because the mixer and the playback tech are, in effect, department keys. All department keys report to the 1st AD.

Mike Most
Technologist
Woodland Hills, CA.

667 in Toronto has decided to call the new RED camera tech a Data Management Technician (DMT). A DIT, as we all know, is something different and a data wrangler is considered a bit derogatory here. When I shoot RED my DMT not only offloads, clones and verifies each shot, but also performs a one light grade for the offline in Red Alert, acts as a guru to all things RED related (they better be reading the forums everyday!) and holds hands between set and post. This is a computer geek position (I mean that in the nicest possible way) and has almost nothing to do with the traditional skills of a camera assistant.

Gregor Hagey csc
DP
Toronto

In 667 what do you call your S.two or Codex Techs? DMTs? I'm typically the DIT and Data Management Technician in addition to being every crew members Tech-support for their IPhone, iPod, laptop or any other computer related piece of equipment. I'm glad I have a solid background as a Camera Assistant it makes me a better DIT and gives me the experience to know when to and when not to push a particular technical or aesthetic issue.

As a Data guy, I've had to deal with being shoe-horned in the Union with a big difference between doing commercials/music videos and feature work. The DMT is in effect the "Lab" person plus how many of us DIT's get to have an additional member to just handle data. DIT is becoming its own little sub group with in-camera but ultimately were there to serve the DP and asst the Camera Assistants.

Dane Brehm
310.710.2658
Cinema Data Tech / IA600 DIT
Phantom | Red | S.Two

Dane,

We only have DIT and DMT in 667. DIT would traditionally be HD, Viper, Genesis, etc. DMT to my knowledge is only RED. I think AC experience is great for a DMT so he/she knows proper etiquette and understands the pressures the camera dept is under on set and will act appropriately. A lot of video asst. people have moved into the position up here. My main relationship with the DMT is to ensure that the look I want gets carried through to the offline (and ultimately lay the groundwork for the final CC). I will work out ideas with them in prep and then check what they've done at lunch during production and direct any changes as needed. They pull .tiffs from each scene for my records and sometimes if I or the director is worried about how something will cut the DMT will quickly piece it together in FCP so it can be checked. Not only does the DMT offload digimags, but they grade, sometimes edit, act as their own tech support and oh yeah know the RED inside and out.

P.S. Dane, if you're good at iPhone tech support my wifi sucks ever since upgrading to 2.2.1.

Gregor Hagey csc
DP
Toronto

Michael Most wrote:

>>Handling, yes. Duplicating and converting, no. At least not according to anyone I've talked to at Local >>600

Well, I am not sure who you have been talking to, but Local 600 has jurisdiction over image files.. On set this would include (but not be limited to) the downloading of solid state media onto on-set RAID's and/or onto shuttle drives that are sent to editorial (or, if you use UPS or FedEx, possibly to a carburetor re-manufacturing company in Ohio with a similar account number to your editorial department:-) )
Functionally on set, this may well include making multiple copies of the image files (to two different shuttle drives,, for instance) and/ or transcoding those files from Phantom cine files, for instance, to something else ingestible by the "real world." Since the safety of the image files is our responsibility, it is often the case that we have to lay off the files to more than one shuttle drive, or to a drive and an LTO backup, for instance.
With regard to the duties of a Digital Imaging Technician versus a Loader , just as we have much variety in different types of jobs in motion picture film, so it goes in the digital world. F'instance: On a 2, 3, or 4 camera film show, you will have a 1st and 2nd Assistant Camera person for each camera and a loader. On a plate shoot (one camera two mags, no actors etc.... it is possible that the unit might have only 1 Assistant - period. On a long, slow, [boring] table top commercial, it might well be that there is a 1st Assistant and maybe a 2nd (maybe not) and no loader.... the same DP on a live action sneaker commercial might have two 1sts, 2 seconds and a loader.

Likewise in the digital world: There are some jobs where the Digital Imaging Technician is handling two or three cameras - matching exposures, setting looks, etc etc etc.... and if the cameras are data file cameras there will most likely be a Loader whose sole job is to download the on-camera media and, if necessary do QA in the truck to make sure everything is there. Going back to that long boring tabletop job - it would be very unlikely that the Digital Imaging Technician would need a separate Loader.

One thing is for sure... whoever is handling that data - downloading and laying it off to drives - on a union job, that responsibility falls to a Local 600 member. It might be a Digital Imaging Technician, it might be a Loader working under the auspices of a DIT... but it is a member of the Camera Department.

Mark H. Weingartner
LA-based VFX DP/Supervisor
http://schneiderentertainment.com/dirphoto.htm
National Chair, ICG National Training Committee (not a policy setter, just an educator )

Tom Tcimpidis wrote:

>>Clearly, I should have placed much more emphasis on CLAIMS

Our Local 695 brothers also claimed jurisdiction over the creation of on-set LUTS.... the jurisdiction over the handling of image data files is Local 600's, as upheld by the International. It is not a matter of personal opinion, it is codified. If you or any other Local 600 member is working on a job with someone downloading data who is not a member of Local 600, you should notify the office.

Mark H. Weingartner
LA-based VFX DP/Supervisor
http://schneiderentertainment.com/dirphoto.htm

Mark H. Weingartner wrote:

>>One thing is for sure... whoever is handling that data - downloading and laying it off to drives - on a >>union job, that responsibility falls to a Local 600 member. It might be a Digital Imaging Technician, it >>might be a Loader working under the auspices of a DIT... but it is a member of the Camera Department.

I never said (or thought) that it would not be a member of the camera department. I just said that it would, in my experience, not be a DIT. I have always seen (and been told) that it would be the loader's job. However, it seems that things have changed, and that is just not the case anymore. All the more reason to widen job descriptions to fit the way our world seems to be going. Less rigid job definitions and possibly less rigid jurisdictions are likely to be where things move in the future, whether we like it or not.

Mike Most
Technologist
Woodland Hills, CA.

>> If you or any other Local 600 member is working on a job with someone downloading data who is not a >>member of Local 600, you should notify the office.

I have to simply smile at this point as I cannot think of anything much less effective than contacting Local 600. I think I was still using Plumbicons the last time I even saw a B.A. on one of my sets or locations, called or not…

Tom Tcimpidis
L.A. Local 659/600 member since they made us move there from Local 695

A DMT is relevant for anything that records to a HDD or SSD regardless of Camera used i.e. F35, Viper, Genesis etc. There is a separate category for Phantom, Red, SI-2K, WeissCam, HPX-3000 or D21. These camera's are unique because they record RAW data to a drive which must be backed-up and secured for travel from Set to Editorial/Post.

At some point in the future we'll need to have a "data center" on-set which will log, capture, and process the meta-data captured on-set especially for Multi-Camera or 3D applications. I'm hoping that this data center will allow for certain automated functions to be transmitted to the Script Supervisor, Sound Mixer, and UPM's individual computers for improved efficiency and communication. It will also provide USB power for everyone’s phone...

Dane Brehm
310.710.2658
Cinema Data Tech / IA600 DIT
Phantom | Red | S.Two

Mike Most writes :

>>I just said that it would, in my experience, not be a DIT. I have always seen (and been told) that it would be >>the loader's job.

This is the way that I have understood it from the discussions at the NEB of Local 600 (I am a NEB Alternate member [2 years] who has attended all but one NEB in 4 years). In addition ALL the RED jobs that I have done to date I have had a Digital Loader and no DIT (low budget of course).

I am a 1st AC that believes that all things with regard to the camera are the camera assistants job (including putting the stop on the lens). I know the cameras (Film or Digital) that I work on inside and out and if I am the Key/A Cam AC I make sure that the additional first on the job know the cameras inside and out too.

One last note : as a department head, the Loader on any/all sets does do more than just Load and unload they are key in keeping the department running smooth. They are my extra set of hands for everything, which always saves time and...

Tony Magaletta
1st Assistant Cameraman
Local 600, IATSE
SOC, Associate Member
Los Angeles, CA
New Orleans, LA
Resume
IMDB Page
213 400 1701 Cell

>>P.S. Dane, if you're good at iPhone tech support my wifi sucks ever since upgrading to 2.2.1.

Dane's in IA600. iPhone tech support is IA723 and a half (I think. This week). Dane is already pushing his luck by admitting to working as a DMT within IA600, and now you want him to fix your iPhone, too?

RED and Apple both. That can't be a good sign...

Grin,

Adam Wilt / filmmaker, MeetsTheEye / writer, provideocoalition.com

Haha....I'm better at fixing iPods....great way to make friends. The make-up + hair dept love me.

I had to create a sign because everyone thought my on-set computer was a great place to charge your phone, check your email, or bid on your next eBay item on-set.

Dane Brehm
San Francisco, CA
IA600 DIT

Dane Brehm wrote:

>>I had to create a sign because everyone thought my on-set computer was a great place to charge your >>phone, check your email, or bid on your next eBay item on-set

LMAO...

Sign did not work for me, so I wrote an apple script that sets off an alarm when anything is plugged into the computer when I am not logged in, so first time it goes off everyone gets the word. It usually only takes once to get the word out.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Chicago, USA

I just submitted some corrections to an American Cinematographer article featuring my show Puppy Love shot on Red. It will be in July's Short Takes.

Despite my calling my Red Tech a "Red Tech" in my interview, the draft of the article I received used the term DIT interchangeably. I corrected it and explained that I consider the Red Tech and a DIT to be very distinct job descriptions. I accept the term Data Management Technician, as Gregor stated, but on RED jobs, there is no painting going on, no precise monitoring, or even creating LUTs, at least the way RED is used on most shoots these days. I know plenty of RED owners, or young computer guys with some camera department skills who are plenty competent as Red Techs or "DMTs" but I would never consider them qualified to be a DIT. They couldn't match cameras on a multi camera HD shoot, deal with LOG space waveforms etc. And yet they are calling themselves DITs, as are many in the community. Not to take anything away from them as Red Techs, but it is not the same thing!

P.S. You can see my Puppy Love web series on Lstudio.com

Stickler for Accurate Terminology,
Jendra Jarnagin, DP, NYC
www.floatingcamera.com

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