Recovering HD

I did another Latitude test during the Santa Fe Workshops at USC with F-900. Same test 3 Stops Over exposure and 6 Stops Under exposures.

1) No Matrix, flat Gamma, DCC off, (recoverable 1 over 2 under)

2) ITU 709, Gamma 3 -20, DCC ON, (Recoverable 1.5 Over 3 under)

3) Doing everything possible to recover in Camera
(Recoverable 3 Over 6 under with Post Color Correction)

More range to work at 12 Bit In camera recovery of over and under exposure then let Post Color Correction go the last lap.

Shooting straight when you are forced to over or under expose and expecting Post Color correction to Fix it will be much more successful if you do what you can (at 12 Bit) in Camera first, then the 8 Bit DaVinci 2K working with 8 Bit Tape will have much more range to make corrections back to normal.

Thanks to Steve Lucas from Wexler we have a very cool B&W Recipe that lets ONE color be brought out leaving everything else B&W.

Very sharp bunch of Attendees at this LA HD Workshop at USC.

They all understand "Donâ€™t believe anything anyone says till you Test it for yourself"

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
HD Cinematography Instructor
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

>3) Doing everything possible to recover in Camera
> (Recoverable 3 Over 6 under with Post Color Correction)

Care to discuss your in-camera recovery steps?

Tim Sassoon
Sassoon Film Design

Be happy to give away hard tested bits of valuable information on an international forum of fellow Cinematographers that they may also benefit and perform well.

I would start by saying that an understanding of all the elements of the camera is really important to knowing how and when to apply the capabilities.

But would say 2 things

1) I will go back and write down exactly what I did to match back as much as
possible.

2) this is something that once you understand the principal you should test it for yourself your Mileage WILL vary depending on if the camera was set up properly in the first place.

Mainly White shading if it isn't dialled in exactly the range of capability will be reduced, and if your Flair Compensation wasn't set right this will also minimize performance.

Basically I will rough one in for you.

TO RECOVER 3 STOPS OVER -

1) Turn DCC ON
2) Turn Knee Sat ON
3) Set Course Gamma from .45 to .75
4) Set Gain to -3 db
5) Set Black Gamma RGB to 50% and -99
Look at the "Y" and determine if its needed depending on the subject.
6) You may also set the Video Level down starting with the "Green" then resetting the WB with R and B.

Remember this is part of an exercise to teach students how to use the tools to make changes and control the image understanding what tool affects what part of the shot.

Obviously the first thing to set highlights here is stop down, ND Down, or shutter down, these may not be what your after also reduce the light or change the shot. Also Obviously This won't work when only part of the shot is 3 stops over and the rest is not.

Again Test this for yourself learn what it does rather than get married to the numbers.

Have Fun, Test it, Be Safe,

Share what you have learned as others have shared with you

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
HD Cinematography Instructor
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

Sean Wrote :

>"Thanks to Steve Lucas from Wexler we have a very cool B&W Recipe >that lets ONE color be brought out leaving everything else B&W."

Thank you Sean for the recovery info. Would Steve be interested in sharing B & W recipe?

Regards

Michael Sweeney csc

>TO RECOVER 3 STOPS OVER -

Sean

Under what circumstances would I be forced to shoot three stops over? Instead of electronically compromising the image and going deep into the menus wouldn't it be easier to:

Stop down
Roll in internal ND filter
Add a front element ND filter
Increase shutter speed (if motion or phasing are not issues)
Some combination of above?

I'm all for field adjustments when necessary but being forced to shoot 3 stops over is rarely (ever?) a problem for me. I would be much more interested in how to increase the ASA of an F900 without dramatically increasing noise. Do you care to share that knowledge?

Jim Iacona
DP
San Francisco

Jim Iacona wrote:

>Under what circumstances would I be forced to shoot three stops over? >Instead of electronically compromising the image and going deep into >the menus...

I interpreted Sean's post as meaning the latitude he could get out of the f900/3 with specific menu teaks. Say you're shooting a day/int scene looking at some large sunny windows with huge contrast ratios.

Is it not so ?

Mark Doering-Powell

> 1) I will go back and write down exactly what I did to match back as >much as possible.

Sean,

I'm curious. Do you find the magical menu combinations and looks that work for you are applicable to all the F-900/mk3 heads? Do you find your numbers get you very close and all that's required is subtle tweaking?

Tom McDonnell
DP/Operator
New Orleans, La

Jim,

Remember its an exercise to get familiar with the tools in the camera and learning what page feature function affects what and how to control your camera it works for over as well as under.

Don't Get wrapped around the axle on 3 stops over or 6 stops under.

Now to come up with a couple of scenarios (just for kicks).
Have you ever shot BTS (behind the scenes) of a High speed film shoot? or the Spots on the sun, or the filament on an HMI or a Lighthouse (I just did that on Anna Capa) once all your ND and Shutter is in and you have set the stop as far down as you can go and your still over exposed for whatever reason.

The director wants shallow DOF shooting a day exterior shot
he also wants all the motion Blur he can get.

So right there your WFO with shutter OFF your 1.8 ND taking down 6 stops is not enough.

If you don't have the other necessary tools to pull it off you must reach into the camera and make it work rather than say "Uh I can't do that, It won't work."

Again its just an exercise to try to see how far you can go

"You must push a test to the point of failure before the test can be considered a success" as for increasing the ASA without dramatically increasing noise I would say define dramatically. I can get to over 80,000 ASA

If you own a Canberra you should be testing all this.

Mark,

Not really everything in the shot is affected so this will not help where only one part of the shot is over exposed as it affects everything.

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

>Do you find the magical menu combinations and looks that work for you >are applicable to all the F-900/mk3 heads? Do you find your numbers >get you very close and all that's required is subtle tweaking?

Great question

The answer is yes That's exactly what I do
I start with a Base I call my "Timed daily"

Then I make tweaks to bring the particular camera to where I want it to be and If necessary for the particular show different from the last show I dial in specific usually modest tweaks for leading lady Flesh Product shots Wardrobe Interior paint or whatever needs it. Usually in Prep so when I get to the field I just shoot what I have built in.

With Practice I can make pretty good tweaks if necessary in about 2 minutes.

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

B. Sean Fairburn LA DP wrote:

>as for increasing the ASA without dramatically increasing noise I would >say define dramatically. I can get to over 80,000 ASA

Really?

Without significant noise?

I'd like to see that. Could you post a couple of frame grabs on the CML website, Sean?

Best wishes,

Jeff "all the good stuff happens in the dark" Kreines

> I'd like to see that. Could you post a couple of frame grabs on the CML >website, Sean?

There is definitely noise but the level at which is acceptable is subjective and there are pretty good noise reduction software that can cut it down by 1/2.

I never said I could get to 80,000 ASA without noise but it doesn't look as bad as you might think.

I especially used it in Iraq when the Night Vision was too much and I wanted the Color of the activity in the shot at night.

So choices between Green and a little noisy vs. full color and more noisy I chose the Color. I could let things explode and blow out and still see things that the light would reveal. The NV adapter would always clamp down to protect itself.

Remember this post where I described Recovering HD from tape in Various shooting philosophies

Same test 3 Stops Over exposure and 6 Stops Under exposures.

1) No Matrix, flat Gamma, DCC off, (recoverable 1 over 2 under)

2) ITU 709, Gamma 3 -20, DCC ON, (Recoverable 1.5 Over 3 under)

3) Doing everything possible to recover in Camera
(Recoverable 3 Over 6 under with Post Color Correction)

I want to try this recording to hard drive and see if there is any more dynamic range or better performance Signal to noise doing this again Tape Vs Hard drive.

If you have the chance to
Test It before I do
Lets compare notes.

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

B&W HD (From recovering) :

There are at least 3 Flavours of B&W that I use
Largely broken down in this way and much of how the look is pulled off is done with Good Lighting and Makeup. It is really an art working in B&W.

The Sony F-900/3 has a new page "Saturation" in the Paint Menu Very helpful when an overall B&W is necessary or a desat rate of 25%, 50% or 75% are desired Very Helpful. But more Caressing of the image is necessary to make it look really good, Gamma, Black Gamma and the exposure.

1) High Contrast (White Whites Rich Blacks)
2) Middle Gray (No real whites or blacks)
3) Medium Contrast (Good whites but lifted blacks)

Then there is the Single color pull out that is Fun to shoot.
Go to Multi Matrix and dial out the SAT to -99 on each Phase. Then go to the User Matrix and dial out the rest of the way to get to B&W.

This way you can go back to Multi and pull up just one or 2 colors leaving everything else B&W. Very Handy Trick.

Again Most of Good B&W is not just the absence of Color but
deliberately lighting and exposing properly to achieve the intended tonal range you want to capture and convey.

B. Sean Fairburn SOC
Director of Photography
Castaic Ca

Thanks for the B&W suggestions Sean.

Another way to get a partial B&W effect is to selectively light parts of your set with very deeply saturated colors. Then go in and dial back saturation until the rest of the set becomes B&W.

Jim Iacona
DP
San Francisco

Jim Iacona wrote:

>Another way to get a partial B&W effect is to selectively light parts of your >set with very deeply saturated colors. Then go in and dial back >saturation until the rest of the set becomes B&W.

Another way is to shoot with a monochrome camera.

Really.

Jeff "likes monochrome HD" Kreines

Jeff wrote :

>Another way is to shoot with a monochrome camera.

>Really. Jeff "likes monochrome HD" Kreines

But which mono color would that be white or black?

Michael "likes duo chrome, I think" Bravin

Michael Bravin wrote:

> But which mono color would that be white or black?

A nicely modulated gray...

Jeff "charging royalties again" Kreines

Jeff "likes monochrome HD" Kreines writes:

>Another way is to shoot with a monochrome camera.

Not if you want part of the scene to retain some color (which was the point of the original posting).

<<Really.>>

Really?

Dan "or do it in post" Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA