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Shooting 48 fps for sync sound

I've been asked to test a 3-D system that uses a single camera, single lens approach.

I will be shooting 48 fps @ 1080p for sync sound (to derive 24fps real time, using alternating frames for left eye and right eye).  I realize there are temporal issues with this concept, but that's not germane to my question.  I'm not sure what it is they're doing in post and am bound by an NDA at this point not to discuss anything about the system.

I'd like to use a 2/3-inch CAMCORDER (for a smaller footprint than the F-23 because there's a lot of water/ underwater work).

Requirements:
- native 10-bit 1080p imager.
- 48 fps full time. 
- dynamic range approaching that of the Varicam 3700 / F23

The movie I'm testing it for is for theatrical release, so we’ll be going for a filmout.  So 10-bit, 4:4:4 colour space at the above frame rate is preferable.

Is my only option the upcoming F9000 or are there other options beside the F23? 

I realize that the EPIC and SCARLET are possible candidates as well, but we're supposed to shoot these tests within the month.

We're also testing a 35mm sized imager and likely I'll use a D-21 or an F-35.  The underwater work would still likely be shot with a smaller camera.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Jacques Haitkin DP
San Francisco

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Hi Jacques, hope you're well.  How about an EX3?  Maybe not what 

you're thinking.

I assume the 10-bit refers to recording and not capture A-D.  The EX3 

could record outboard to 10 bit.

Best,

-Graham Futerfas

---

Graham Futerfas

Director of Photography

Los Angeles, CA

www.GFuterfas.com

---

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Thanks  for saying hello, Graham.  I'm good.  Hope you're well  too!

   

Jacques Haitkin  DP

San  Francisco

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The PhantomHD makes the most sense.

- smaller footprint.

-1080p 444

-perfect for B-cam/underwater work

My second option would be RED doing 3K @ 48fps. Third option would be SI2k.

A EX3 only does 48fps in 720p mode.

I have footage for testing both or could arrange a F23/3700 vs Phantom vs

Red test since I'm local to you. Feel free to contact me off list.

Dane Brehm

DIT: Phantom Tech

San Francisco

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>> A EX3 only does 48fps in 720p mode.

   

An EX3 does 60fps in 720p and 30fps in 1080p

David Williams

________________________

Www.davidwilliams.com.au

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SI-2K maxes out at 29.97 at 1080...  If the resolution requirement is

dropped to 720, there are many choices.  At 1080, not so much!

George Hupka

Director/DP, Downstream Pictures

Saskatoon, Canada

Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This why it would be my third choice it only meets the resolution/colour

depth requirement if size is an issue.

720p RAW (cineform) could be uprezzed. Phantom is the way to go as it meets

size, framerate, and quality for extracting frames for single acquisition 3D

which is what Jacques said he was doing.

Dane Brehm

DIT : 3D camera tech (ET)

San Francisco

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Jacques, the F9000 is no longer "upcoming.". Abel has them available 

for rent.  And of course we also have the Phantom

Mitch Gross

Applications Specialist

Abel Cine Tech

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Thanks, Mitch! 

Are  the boards that allow the camera to run 48 fps

available (within the  next 4 weeks)?  Will it capture 4:4:4 at 48 fps?  

Jacques Haitkin DP

San Francisco

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We have an SRW9000 with ALL the boards.  So yes, it will capture 4:4:4 at 48fps no problem.

Mitch Gross

Applications Specialist

Abel Cine Tech

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Would you have audio sync drift issues at 48 fps?

Regards,

Vincent Hogan

President

Cineworks Digital Studios, Inc.-Miami, New Orleans

www.cineworks.com

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0189980/

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>>Would  you have audio sync drift issues at 48 fps?

Hey Vinny.  Long  time...

 

Possibly.  Not my  expertise.  I assume you mean because it's not a

multiple of  23.98...?  Point now moot due to update.

Jacques Haitkin DP

San Francisco

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Vince Hogan writes :

> Would  you have audio sync drift issues at 48 fps?

Jacques Haitkin wrote:

> Possibly.  Not my  expertise.  I assume you mean because it's not a

> multiple of  23.98...?  Point now moot due to update.

Hi everyone,

The F23 / F35 / 9000 can shoot 48fps as Mitch pointed out.

But that is an OFFSPEED framerate, so no sync sound at all.

I ran into that question when I prepped my last 3D project. There might be a

DCI standard for screening 2x 48fps for 3D (48 fps per eye), but there is no

camera around (at least not that I am aware of), that can record sync sound

@ 48fps. I don't think there's a 48fps Audiodeck or a 48fps Timecode (I

guess this could possibly be solved using 24PsF TC?) but 48 fps production

is not ready yet at all...

I would love to hear more about that.

+++ Florian Rettich, bvk +++

+++ Vision Control / D.I.T. +++

+++ Munich, Germany +++

+++ http://www.digitalfilmservice.de

 +++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>> there is no camera around (at least not that I am aware of), that can

>> record sync sound @ 48fps.

But I presume it would be speed-accurate enough to hold synch in a

double-system setup? One might wonder what the application would be, but ride films would love to shoot and project at 60P or greater.

Tim Sassoon

SFD

Santa Monica, CA

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Florian Rettich writes:

<< The F23 / F35 / 9000 can shoot 48fps as Mitch pointed out. But 

that is an OFFSPEED framerate, so no sync sound at all.>>

Whatever speed you're shooting at, you can do a high-quality *analog* 

real-time transfer from your original audio recording medium to 

whatever editing timebase you're using. A second of time is a second 

of time, regardless of your chosen framerate.

If you play back on the original recording unit your clock speed will 

be spot-on and there should be no speed drift over time.  You won't 

have preserved any original timecode, but as long as you use head- or 

tail-slates (or even sync up by eye) you should come out smelling 

like a rose.

Details may vary with your equipment and your NLE, but that's the 

general idea.

Granted, the clocks in your camera and recorder may not be dead 

accurate, but these days the discrepancy should amount to less than a 

frame over a time span that will permit adding or subtracting a frame 

of audio seamlessly.

Dan "digital brain, analog soul" Drasin

Producer/DP

Marin County, CA

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One hurdle with 48fps is there's not timecode format for it so you have to

use 24fps with fake fields.

Mike Gross

NYC

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