Ultra Primes & Arri 3

I have been getting conflicting advice on whether the full complement of Arri Ultra Primes will fit an Arri 3 mk2 that has been modified (Panavision) to Super 35 PL mount? We have physically mounted the lenses and gently hand turned the shutter with seemingly no contact but I have been advised by experienced technicians I am asking for trouble especially with the rear clearance on some of the wides.

The Super 35 modified Arri 3 has real limitations with certain lenses rear clearance and that is well documented but as yet I cannot find definitive data on the Ultra Primes. Has anyone been here ?

Many Thanks
Tom Gleeson
www.cinematography.net

Tom Gleeson writes :

>The Super 35 modified Arri 3 has real limitations with certain lenses rear >clearance and that is well documented but as yet I cannot find definitive >data on the Ultra Primes.

The mirror is not the problem, its the ground glass clearance.

In the first day of using primes, the very rear of the lens would have to be shaved or filed in just the right position to clear the lenses so they would not push on the ground glass itself.

These were the original PL standard primes. If I remember correctly not all focal length were cause to be modified. As for Ultra Primes have never had a chance to observe this on the super35 Arri3.

My 2 cents worth...hope this helps.

Stacy Strode
Technician

Tom,

Clairmont Camera in the US has a number of modified S35 Arri 3 bodies.

Phil Savoie
BBC Natural History Unit

BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/

WOW....this is all new news to me!

Tom wrote :

>The Super 35 modified Arri 3 has real limitations with certain lenses rear >clearance and that is well documented but as yet I cannot find definitive >data on the Ultra Primes.

Does anyone have a list of what other lenses may be dangerous to a S-35 35-3?

I've been thinking of having my 35-3 Mk-2 upgraded to S-35...this info might effect my decision.

Jeff Barklage, s.o.c.
DP/USA
www.barklage.com

Another anomaly to be aware of is that the extreme rear of some lenses can block the path of the shutter reflected image reaching the ground glass. Therefore it appears you are vignetting in the super 35 territory as far as viewing is concerned while you are in fact covering on film.

If this issue has already been covered forgive my repeating it.

Greg DeFoe
Design Engineer
San Bruno CA

Jeff

T 1.3 primes offer no problem. T2.1 primes are generally a problem wider than a 50mm. I recall a list of all problematic lenses in the CML Archives that I downloaded.

I'm on location, but will give you more info when I'm home by the weekend.

Kent Hughes
DoP
SoCal

The biggest problem is the viewing system. The camera was never designed with the super 35 offset in mind. Sometimes you cannot see edge to edge in the reflex system, depending upon focal length /lens manufacturer. The wider lenses are more problematic.

Paul Varrieur S.O.C.

Jeff Barklage wrote :

>I've been thinking of having my 35-3 Mk-2 upgraded to S-35...this info >might effect my decision.

There's also a little known issue with S-35 Arri 35III shutter counter weights(only on the variable shutter models) I believe there's a slight blur on the edge of the frame as a result, not easily perceived.

John Babl

I can't answer the question of Ultra Primes and Super 35 Arri 3 cameras, but I do have a variety of useful information on the topic.

There are a number of conversions possible. We do a conversion where we add a new Super/Standard lens mount, and a new ground glass holder & ground glass, and modify the viewfinder (Jurgens works well) to reasonably see the Super image area.

Some of the issues to consider are: Zeiss Standard Speed lenses wider than 28mm may impact the mirror shutter. I'm not in the office to confirm, but I think the 14mm may be OK. This means that the 28, 24, 20, and 16 don't work. 18, 25, and all longer lenses are OK. The 12 is out as it is a modified 16. I don't have the info on the 10 here.

Also, most zoom lenses are out, not because they impact the shutter, but because they vignette!

If anyone is interested in more definitive information on our conversion and what lenses do and don't work, please contact me.

Marty Oppenheimer
Oppenheimer Cine Rental
Oppenheimer Camera Products
Seattle

Speaking of viewing issues some video doors for S-35 Arri III's don't cover entire frame. I believe the left side of the frame is slightly cut by commonly used Jurgen's video doors due to slight enlargement of GG image in door optics. Straight doors and held doors do not seem to have this problem.

David Campbell
operator/steadicam
Sherman Oaks, CA

Andre Martin at Clairmont (and I'm sure others do as well) builds an optical "reducer" that allows you to see full frame S35. It's magnetic, so you can switch between centred academy and Super 35.

Kent Hughes
DoP
SoCal